6D: Math vs Nature

8. Characterizing Nature

We have described in another chapter about the complexity of embedded engineering systems. They represent nature, because they are created using objects of nature, they interact with nature, they implement many laws of nature like – simultaneity, finite time, boundedness. We can then imagine how complex the real nature is. If we cannot characterize embedded system using mathematics then we cannot definitely characterize nature.

By Using Money 

Can we compare two human beings using money? Can we say this man should get $10 per hour and the other man should get $1000 per hour? The answer is no for all those questions, but yet we are doing that in our society. Our economic system is designed to do just that. Discrimination is the foundation of our economic system. Everybody in the world hates the cast system of India, yet we see discriminations are all pervading in the economics, and therefore in all societies.

Can we compare two Ph.D qualified persons by using money? Can we compare two physics persons, one specialized in Quantum Mechanics and the other one in Special Theory of Relativity? Can we even compare two specialists in Quantum Mechanics? Here again, the answers are No.

Just like we cannot compare two apples by using money, we cannot similarly compare two humans also. No two apples are same; they have different colors, shapes, sizes, and even different tastes. How can we then dare to compare two humans, who are billion times more complex than apples? We simply cannot.

By Using Numbers 

Just like money cannot be used to measure or characterize an object of nature, in the same way real numbers cannot also be used to characterize any object of nature. After all money is a real number.

Every object of nature has almost infinite number of characteristics. Each characteristic is different in each dimension. Total number of dimensions of two objects can never be same also. Thus no two objects can be compared. Unless two vector spaces are identical, objects from two different spaces cannot be compared.

An Apple: Can you describe an apple using math? Can you locate a point correctly and uniquely on the surface of every apple or any one apple? No you cannot. Where will be the origin of your coordinate system on the apple? Every apple has different shape at all places. The shapes or contours of two apples are not same, even at their stems. So the origins cannot be precisely located at the stem. The same is true for all locations on the surface of the apple. If you cannot locate the origin then you cannot identify the locations of any point on the apple. If you cannot locate a point then obviously you cannot describe that point.

Did you notice that every apple has different colors on the surface? No two neighboring points have the same color. So apple cannot be described by its colors. Two apples are completely different in shapes and colors. They cannot be compared. None of them therefore can be described by mathematics. If you cannot describe an apple using your thoughts, language, etc., then how can you think of describing it using a symbolic language like mathematics? You simply cannot. More you think about it, more you realize how false the math can be.

I am sure you have noticed that different parts of the same apple have different tastes. That means different molecules of the same apple have different tastes. Since molecules have different tastes, then different atoms must also have different tastes. Thus all finer particles of atoms, like electrons, neutrons must also have different tastes.

Thus electrons protons, atoms etc. are not just mechanical objects with specific structures, they have different tastes. Thus the descriptions of atoms, molecules, given by physics are incomplete, because they do not include the taste property. Similarly there are many other properties of particles that are beyond the scope of modern science.

You must have also noticed that water tastes different at different sources of its origin. Water from lake, rivers, oceans, seas all taste differently. Therefore Hydrogen and Oxygen molecules have also different tastes. Such tastes are obvious properties of humans and animals also. How can you describe such humans using money? How can you compare two humans? In short form we say – all objects of nature are like apples and oranges. Any attempt to describe them using math is just outright impossible. They only represent waste of time and misguided effort or energy.

Vedas have described every object, from tiny un-manifested particles to humans and to galaxies, as having properties which is a result of combination of three fundamental characteristics (gunas), called sattwa (enlightment, light, knowledge), tamas (ignorance, darkness, ego), and rajas (activity, controller, combiner). Such combinations are manifested in all objects as tastes, colors, anger, love, hate, etc. There is no object that does not have these three gunas or properties. These three gunas are analog properties; their proportions continuously change with time, inside every object. You may think of these gunas as RGB colors of your computer screen, each one of which is controlled by 16 or 32 bit registers on your computer.

Thus you can see that engineering technology knows the nature much better than math and science. Math and science are lagging at least 200 years behind embedded engineering technology, and therefore nature.

Electrons: Now we know why and how two electrons are never same, just like two human beings are never identical. Each electron comes from different orbits or from different locations, identified by their quantum numbers or by some other characteristics of their orbits or neighborhoods. Thus two electrons are different; they not only have different features, their total number of features is different also.

Therefore position of one electron cannot be compared with the position of another electron. Same component of two different sized vector spaces cannot be compared. The vector spaces are different and therefore the objects are different.

You must know pure mathematics to know how to use applied mathematics.

Vector Spaces: Therefore algebra cannot be used on electrons or humans. Like two human beings, two electrons are not also same. Use of algebra requires the assumptions that both are real numbers. You cannot convert any characteristics of any human being to numbers, in the same way any characteristic, like position, velocity of an electron cannot be characterized by numbers and therefore algebra cannot be used. Such methods impose isolated environment, an impossible assumption for nature.

Operators: The operator theory requires two same linear vector spaces. But in nature there is no linearity . Every object has bounded characteristics, as we have discussed in chapter one on Truth. There is no infinity in nature and for any object. Thus linear vector space is not an applicable and meaningful concept for nature.

The inner product is also defined using infinity. Thus entire operator theory is not meaningful for real objects of nature. Conceptually, physically, and philosophically operator theory is incompatible with nature.

The Swartz Inequality which is used for the proof of uncertainty principle is thus meaningless for nature. It requires identical vectors for two different characteristics of objects, which is not possible. It requires inner product, which requires infinity, a meaningless concept for nature.

Cascading two operators are completely confusing. The output of one operator is a completely different type of an object from its input. The operator completely changes the characteristics of the input variables. This output variable cannot be used as input for another operator.

Imagine that you are using ECG data from one person. This data capture-process can be considered as an operator. Observe the falsity: the heart or health of a person cannot be completely specified by a finite number of ECG channel data. Besides this falsity, once you get this data, it cannot be fed into another operator or another ECG machine. The ECG output is a measured data and cannot be input for any operator, even of same type. Thus cascading two operators, as is done in operator theoretic methods of UP is not feasible by any engineering concepts.

It is a fact that engineering can be implemented completely without using any kind mathematics. Just like we humans do not use mathematics when we do our daily activities, just like god does not use mathematics, in the same way we can implement engineering without even using complex algebra [Das, 2012-2].

In this sense, mathematics is completely incompatible for the investigation of nature or characterization of any object of nature. Nature must be studied in a completely different way. It seems yogic methods are the best possible method. The chapter on yogic power shows there is nothing that we cannot do using yogic power.

9. Conclusions

Uncertainty Principle (UP) is an anti-destiny theory. So we investigated the internal details in the proof of UP. Heisenberg invented this theory, and has given two proofs of it. We have shown that both are wrong and have very basic and fundamental errors. We have also shown that UP violates another theory of mathematics, known as infinite dimensionality of functions over finite duration. Surprisingly this infinite dimensionality is widely used in QM.

Engineering does not need mathematics. We have briefly discussed, that engineering can be made robust and reliable if we avoid mathematics in the design of embedded engineering systems. We should recognize that god does not use mathematics, then why should we.

We have shown that mathematics is in general not at all suitable for analyzing and characterizing anything about nature. Yogic method as described in Vedas is the best approach.


For more details please visit the blog site on Uncertainty Principle by this author.

You may also want to download the peer reviewed published paper on Quantum Mechanics by this same author.




  1. G’day Subhendu

    “In Kabbalah I did not see anything related to your thoughts.”

    This is surprising, the Kabbalah is not just timeless but of timelessness, in other words the information we receive through the kabbalah isn’t of man’s origin but of timelessness itself, it’s of an origin not of time. You could say it came directly from God’s consciousness like a lot of old scriptures and writings have, however man through his ignorance corrupts this timeless information with his own ignorance.


    “The Kabbalah reaches back to the patriarch Abraham, who devoted his life to searching for the One God and revealing God to the world. Abraham is said to have received traditional wisdom from Shem, son of Noah, and his great-grandson, Eiver. Abraham’s investigations brought him to supreme levels of prophecy and wisdom. His teachings were passed down in Sefer Yetzirah, The Book of Creation, the most ancient Kabbalistic work.”

    I think you will find that the kabbalah comes from this timelessness I speak about, God’s consciousness. I think you will find a lot of yogic principles also come from this same consciousness of timelessness.


    “Kabbalah has been defined as theosophy, which is a “teaching about the hidden nature of divinity.” That is what Kabbalah is, in a nutshell: the study of the nature of God. “

    God’s consciousness (timelessness) = true nature in it’s most natural purest form, this is why I define it as pure consciousness. God’s consciousness isn’t defined by time but timelessness and so is all the knowledge that comes from such timelessness.

    QM is mainly of an elaboration of human perception however there is some truth to QM when it’s not of this elaboration of human perception; this is hard to define for most people.

    Much Blessings,


    1. You wrote – “This is surprising, the Kabbalah is not just timeless but of timelessness, in other words the information we receive through the kabbalah isn’t of man’s origin but of timelessness itself, it’s of an origin not of time. You could say it came directly from God’s consciousness like a lot of old scriptures and writings have, however man through his ignorance corrupts this timeless information with his own ignorance.”

      You are absolutely correct. That is the origin of Vedas also. But Veda does not say one god. It does not even have god. I think now I know what you mean by timelessness. It is eternal, it is true for all time. Veda is called Sanatan Dharma – eternal religion. You will read it in the last chapter of my book.


      1. That’s exact, right on with what I was saying about timelessness.

        It’s not a God but I do call it God’s consciousness, it’s what I also call pure consciousness in timelessness. It’s pure consciousness because this pure consciousness isn’t fragmented or tainted by ignorance however in time, this consciousness is fragmented which leads to man’s ignorance if he isn’t aware.

        The kabbalah and yogic principles are of this timelessness, this pure consciousness, this is why I love what you have written here in this book.

        We are on the same track, it’s just we are using different locomotives. In other words we are using different principles to come to the same conclusion, it’s not easy to understand each other completely because of this but we are getting there.

        I’m enjoying my discussions with you my friend.


        1. Many people claim Veda is not man-made, but god-made. It is said that a yogi can hear Veda – the Sanskrit word is Shruti – divine hearing. If you acquire such yogic power through yogic meditation then you will hear the entire Veda coming out of nature. Since it is hearing, somebody must be speaking, and that somebody must be god. For, ordinary people cannot hear it. Since physics does not believe in god, then Veda must be wrong.

          I have explained this subject in Veda chapter. From Veda I have learnt that this is not hearing, it is a vision, called divine vision. You will be able to see the entire universe, all objects, and all laws, which is the Veda, by your own eyes if you acquire this divine vision. Both time and space collapse here. There are some examples of such yogic power in Vedas. One of them is in Gita.

          There is a memory chapter in the book, which explains how nature stores everything that happens, inside the nature, permanently and eternally. Memory is not in the brain, but is in the nature. We can see them via yogic power. Cursing, blessing, and astrology all come from this divine vision. Ordinary people can also have momentary divine visions.


          1. All I can say is I utterly agree, this is what I call the zone, athletes aren’t the only one’s to experience this zone that makes them perform beyond their capabilities, scientists and spiritualists alike can experience this zone as of anyone else when they focus enough.


  2. What I understood of this I agree, QM and mathematics analysis is only about assumptions .

    I’m going to throw a spanner in the works in relation to nature.

    Nature is in reference to something natural, if we were to perceive everything as just energy including thought/perceptions, what then becomes natural and what doesn’t? Everything including thoughts/perceptions is energy, what part of our reality isn’t natural then? Everything becomes natural therefore a part of nature.

    In time, man perceives nature to be like the trees, water, animals, planets and so on, this is fragmented consciousness, a consciousness fragmented to create individual forms.

    Timelessness is different mainly because it’s not of this fragmented consciousness, consciousness is whole, it’s not made up of fragmented consciousness like trees, water and so on. Timelessness is about energy nothing else; in a timeless state of consciousness you only perceive energy mainly because of there being no fragmentation of consciousness.

    Timelessness = un-fragmented consciousness + energy (God’s consciousness)

    Time = fragmented consciousness + trees + planets + ego + ignorance + man’s perception of nature + man’s consciousness +++++++

    When you are in a state of timeliness in time, all you perceive is energy, a consciousness that’s not fragmented, it’s all natural and of nature. When you are only in a state of time, you perceive an endless stream of different forms and perceptions; in this state we separate things as being natural or unnatural like money for instance. Everything within time is separated and the more we just become aware through time the more we separate everything. Timelessness doesn’t separate everything therefore consciousness within timelessness is far less complicated and chaotic. Timelessness is more natural and of nature than anything of time.

    Much Blessings,


    1. Hi Mat,
      I am glad that you have managed through the chapter on Quantum Mechanics. Thank you for your time. I am getting a lot of help from you. I do not know how I can repay that back.

      Everything cannot be converted to energy. Only physical material objects can be converted. Thus thoughts, perceptions, consciousness etc. cannot be converted to energy. That is because they are not physical objects.

      However, since all adjectives are associated with a noun, you can convert that noun to energy. Suppose your thought is related to a tree, then you can covert that tree to energy. If your second thought is a branch of that tree then you can convert that branch to energy. Etc.

      For consciousness, the soul is the noun. But soul is not an object of nature. All objects of nature go through a birth, maturity, and death process. The soul does not obey that law, soul is eternal, and therefore is not a physical object. Soul cannot be converted to energy.

      Moreover, I have said entire physics is wrong. Therefore we cannot rely on the idea that a physical object can be converted to energy. Even if you can, the conversion will not help you. If you convert an apple A to energy, it will become EA, similarly a banana B will become EB. So EA and EB will be different, just as A and B are different. You cannot compare them or add them, because EA and EB are two different objects. They retain the characteristics of A and B, even though they are energy.

      Best regards,


      1. You are helping me as well Subhendu, you are helping me to remember my past. I don’t look at all my past lives as separate lives, it’s one life with different scenes being played out, you are helping me to remember these scenes and even an existence before this universe was created.

        This universe is but a grain of sand upon a beach, this isn’t saying there are that many universes, it’s saying there are other numerous dimensions and realities and most of them aren’t physical in nature like ours. The energy of these non-physical and semi physical dimensions and realities is less dense; this makes the energy fluctuation flow different to ours. No I have no proof of this but how our own planets have formed in this solar system, they are quite different in a simular way.

        They can’t be converted to energy because they are energy; this universe created from a massive surge of energy so everything from this is also energy, where did this massive surge of energy come from? It came from pure consciousness which is also energy; in a true timeless state you only see energy fluctuation flows, nothing else.

        Pure Consciousness = energy, energy = physicality, physicality = human consciousness + animal consciousness + plant consciousness, everything has derived from energy therefore is energy before it is anything else. B is energy, this B turns into a banana C but it’s still a (B), an energy no matter what. A is this pure consciousness therefore everything including B is consciousness. The banana then becomes AB AND C.

        (A) = pure consciousness
        (B) = energy
        (c) = a banana

        Can you see how this pure consciousness becomes fragmented especially in time?

        The Kabbalah and yogic principal’s stem way back in the antediluvian period, I thought I would give you a link address that gives a fair amount of information of the existence of this period.


        Much Blessings,

        PS You need to do a past life regression, I think you would be surprised in who you actually are.


        1. As I said before I need a reference to understand your thoughts. In Kabbalah I did not see anything related to your thoughts. I do see some similarities with quantum mechanics people. What QM people say is correct, but they are saying from Vedic theories not from QM math. Dr. Wayne Dyer and Dr. Deepak Chopra say similar things but they trust QM.


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