# 3A: Overview of MLE

1. The plastic card is just a form of money. And the arithmetic behind it all is still the same.

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1. idpnsd says:

No, that is not correct. You probably did not go to the next paragraph. The following is written there – “The number 40 will not go down as we buy things. Its purpose is to indicate that we have performed our work and contributed for the society in the previous week.”

Money goes down as we buy things, but the number 40 does not. There is no arithmetic behind the number 40. If you work it will remain constant at 40. If you do not work it will jump to zero. It does not take any other number, between 0 and 40.

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1. The card is still money because it is necessary to buy things, even if it is only transitory. If you don’t work, you don’t have any use of the card, by your own admission. And that’s… pretty much the way things work now.

I do agree with you that your number 40 is a meaningless number in terms of arithmetic. On that, we do agree. But that doesn’t work in your favor, because meaningless numbers are always… well… meaningless. Meaningless numbers don’t exist. But you yourself do tend to backtrack on the “meaninglessness” of 40, since you yourself do admit that the card could also say “O” – if people don’t do any work. And so, the 40 does have a meaning after all, just as the zero has a meaning. It’s the difference between getting everything for free as long as you work some unspecified amount of time doing some unspecified amount of labor versus not getting anything at all if one doesn’t work at all.

But there are problems with your idea over and above this faulty insistence that you’ve done away with money. Which you haven’t. For one, you CAN’T allow people unlimited credit on the card for only a finite amount of work. You wouldn’t be able to produce enough stuff to give away to everyone. Nor would you be able find enough qualified people for every job required to keep up the pace of production. Nor would you be able to find enough qualified people who are willing to be compensated the exact same amount for their highly demanding technical job as a road worker gets for filling potholes.

The world can’t work this way. Otherwise, it would operate this way already.

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1. idpnsd says:

I am not sure if I understand your first paragraph. You wrote – “The card is still money because it is necessary to buy things, even if it is only transitory.”

Although I have used the word “buy”, but are you indicating something else by the same word? Under MLE buy means get everything free, by showing the card that has 40 written on it.

“If you don’t work, you don’t have any use of the card, by your own admission.” – That is correct. But is there anything wrong there?

“And that’s… pretty much the way things work now.” – That is also correct and is a very important slogan for MLE. As written in this subsection – We can run the exact same economy that we have now in the exact same way, yet give any lifestyle anyone wants.

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1. This is what you said.

“Money goes down as we buy things, but the number 40 does not. There is no arithmetic behind the number 40. If you work it will remain constant at 40.:”

According to your own words, the number 40 is in fact meaningless in terms of it’s relationship to purchasing power. And if purchasing power is what the card relates to, than the number 40 is meaningless. Why does the card need to have “40” on it? Why can’t you just scan the card as a time card, showing you’ve been to work? And you also indicate that the 40 has no relationship to how much time you REALLY work. You could actually work more or less, but it wouldn’t make any difference. As you said, there is no arithmetic behind the number.

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1. idpnsd says:

There is no concept of purchasing power under MLE. If you work you get everything free, from corporate jets to a pencil.

“Why can’t you just scan the card as a time card, showing you’ve been to work?” – It appears that you are probably beginning to understand MLE. Yes, all you have to prove that you have worked full time and produced the products and services the society needs. In more technologically advanced society, you won’t need to carry any card. Computers will have all the information.

Instead of 40, you can write “Y” – indicating worked full time. I think this concept is already there in the book or in my other blog sites.

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2. I said:

“If you don’t work, you don’t have any use of the card, by your own admission.”

You replied:

– That is correct. But is there anything wrong there?

Not a thing is wrong. The point is, your admission defeats your own argument that money is being eliminated. The card is a form of money. You work to earn the use of it, and the use of it provides you with “free” goods and services. If you don’t work, you don’t get the money. Why do you need the meaningless “40” on the card anyway?

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2. idpnsd says:

Now I copy and then respond to the second paragraph of your comments on – July 25, 2015 at 6:42 pm

“I do agree with you that your number 40 is a meaningless number in terms of arithmetic. On that, we do agree. But that doesn’t work in your favor, because meaningless numbers are always… well… meaningless. Meaningless numbers don’t exist. But you yourself do tend to backtrack on the “meaninglessness” of 40, since you yourself do admit that the card could also say “O” – if people don’t do any work. And so, the 40 does have a meaning after all, just as the zero has a meaning. It’s the difference between getting everything for free as long as you work some unspecified amount of time doing some unspecified amount of labor versus not getting anything at all if one doesn’t work at all.”

I do not think I have used the word “meaningless” to characterize the number 40. Did I? Why does 40 hours appear meaningless to you?

“..as long as you work some unspecified amount of time..” – did I say that? No, they all work for 40 hours per week just the way it is done now under central bank economy (CBE) in USA.

“..doing some unspecified amount of labor..” – I did not say that either. The amount of labor should be the same as is done now under CBE and in USA.

Note that the slogan for MLE is – same economy same way, but any lifestyle.

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1. If everything is free, it shouldn’t matter how much labor is done to purchase something. Everything is free. To say otherwise, and to say that 40 hours is the minimum, or the set limit, is to say that there is a VALUE on the commodities being provided for “free”. Your premise is self-contradicting. If everything is free, then no work at all should be required, because nothing has value. There should be no reason at all to confiscate the home of someone who doesn’t work. The home has no value. And everyone else has a home anyway, given to them for free. So, why should you need to confiscate the home of a non-worker? So that you can “recover some sort of loss” on something that has no value which you gave away for free? How do you justify confiscating the home if the worker has ALREADY worked to get it?

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1. idpnsd says:

According to the laws of nature – nothing has any money value, or mathematical value. Because both money and real numbers are false for same reasons. And also for same reason mathematics, physics, and economics are all wrong. In fact entire education system, religions, philosophies are all false, because they are controlled by money. How can you create something true using something false like money?

“If everything is free, then no work at all should be required, because nothing has value.” – What do you mean by value?

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2. I said:

“..as long as you work some unspecified amount of time..” –

You said:

did I say that? No, they all work for 40 hours per week just the way it is done now under central bank economy (CBE) in USA.

Yes. You did say that. The 40 hours is based on the US standard, you said, but it could be subject to change in decades ahead… to some UNSPECIFIED AMOUNT. In practical terms, it’s ALREADY unspecified because you yourself have said the 40 on the card has no relationship to a real number or value.

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1. idpnsd says:

“… to some UNSPECIFIED AMOUNT.” It will never be unspecified. It may not be 40 but some smaller or larger number, specified before the changes happen, but then remains constant, until the next change. If you can find “Unspecified” in the book let me know, I will correct it.

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3. idpnsd says:

Here is the copy and response to the third paragraph of your comments on – July 25, 2015 at 6:42 pm

“But there are problems with your idea over and above this faulty insistence that you’ve done away with money. Which you haven’t. For one, you CAN’T allow people unlimited credit on the card for only a finite amount of work. You wouldn’t be able to produce enough stuff to give away to everyone. Nor would you be able find enough qualified people for every job required to keep up the pace of production. Nor would you be able to find enough qualified people who are willing to be compensated the exact same amount for their highly demanding technical job as a road worker gets for filling potholes”.

The book has addressed many of these issues in other sections of the MLE chapter. Please give some time to look at them. They are on the right hand side menu near the top of the page.
“… faulty insistence that you’ve done away with money..” – But you did not find the fault? Show me the paragraph that says money has not been removed.

“For one, you CAN’T allow people unlimited credit on the card for only a finite amount of work.” – But are we not doing that now? A CEO makes \$10mn/yr salary for same 40 hours/week. Isn’t this unlimited credit for finite amount of work? Remember the slogan – same economy same way. So there is nothing wrong in doing the same thing for MLE also.

“You wouldn’t be able to produce enough stuff to give away to everyone”. – Isn’t that true for now? If all millionaires want corporate jets shall we be able to give them one? If one of the trillionaires wants one new Ferrari every day, shall we be able to give him that? Thus if we cannot do something now, we will most likely not be able to do the same thing under MLE also.

“Nor would you be able to find enough qualified people who are willing to be compensated the exact same amount for their highly demanding technical job as a road worker gets for filling potholes”. No one is forcing any one “to be compensated the exact same amount” under MLE. You can have any lifestyle you want.

“highly demanding technical job” – is it better than “filling potholes?” How do you know that? One man is doing it under air conditioned office and living in air conditioned home, and the other man is under hot summer sun with a home without even electricity. Which one is tougher and better? How do you compare?

MLE obeys the laws of nature. There is no comparison between apples and oranges. Anybody can go and do any job according to their mindsets. Under MLE there are more jobs than there are people. CBE restricts the number of jobs but MLE does not.

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1. MLE contradicts the laws of nature. In every conceivable way. The statement is self evident. Because otherwise, MLE would be what humans did all along. In the same way plants use photosynthesis naturally. And unless you invent some sort of magic box that can create everything anybody would ever want, in sufficient quantities, using no energy or raw materials to do it, so that the production could be truly free, and you could give one of these magic boxes to every individual on the planet… your idea will never work.

Your idea has already been tried countless times. Even in America. It was called “slavery”. Africans working the cotton plantations of Mississippi got everything for free from their master, and in exchange they had to work. If they didn’t work, there was punitive action against them. But they worked, and everything was free for them (as long as they produced it themselves). Everything is free in North Korea too. And over there, you have to work too, or you don’t get any free stuff.

Economics works that way. That really is the law of nature.

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1. idpnsd says:

“Africans working the cotton plantations of Mississippi got everything for free from their master,..” – No, they did not get corporate jets nor lived in a palace. But under MLE you can.

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2. You’re respect of natural processes is right on point but not sure it makes sense to use an unnatural man-made technology (40 hour week card) to regulate a natural process (soulful work). Seems like it would make much more sense to allow natural processes to regulate unnatural man-made processes which is how the system works anyway. After all – nature bats last 😉

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1. idpnsd says:

Thank you for visiting the blog site and for posting your comments.

You are correct. This method of a plastic card shows that I do not trust people. But this process is suggested for the transition period – from CBE (central bank economy) to MLE. And there will be people, much better than I am who will provide many better and feasible initial implementation ideas. Years later and in more developed stage of MLE, this card will not be necessary, I am sure. The idea of course will be to follow the nature as you pointed out.

We have discussed later, down in this chapter and in other places in the book, how MLE will change the philosophy of lifestyles. CBE lifestyle and mindset may become history and unrecognizable over decades under MLE. This will impact the nature of economy also. The book discusses the global view of life and its purposes, which will in turn impact education and economic systems. They will change all the management methods for the MLE, as discussed here.

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1. The MLE is already in action around the world in every primitive tribal society that lives solely on a subsistence level basis in remote undeveloped areas where they have unfettered access to natuiral resources. The tribes of the Amazon forest, the North Sentinelese Islanders, etc… live pretty much as people lived 20,000 years ago.

But it’s not going to work anywhere where people want to have an advanced industrial society with millions of products, services and luxuries available to them. And you can bet, when one of those Amazon rain forest dwellers needs emergency medical care and doesn’t want to die… they find some way to get modern medicine and the service is PAID FOR somehow, even if not by them.

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2. idpnsd says:

All man-made technology is natural. A house is made of things taken from nature, like wood, bricks, iron bars etc. They either grow in a tree or can be mined from underneath the earth. But money does not have this characteristics, so money is false.

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1. Money is not false. Money is an abstract medium of exchange. Money is not false because Mathematics is not false. Money is no more false than numbers are. And money can be anything. It can be worthless paper that represents a debt, or it can be a chunk of gold that represents assets.

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